Polish M 1985 (GAL wz.85) Training Bayonet Variants

[SIG_551_SWAT]

I would like to share some pics of the different "insulator" colors of the Polish Training bayonet.
These are the colors I have in my collection:





From left to right:

1986 Nr 00345
1986 Nr 00622

1987 Nr 03391
1987 Nr 04317

1988 Nr 05980

1988 ML 0044
1988 ML 0090

1989 Nr 11852

[MDIvie]

ML marked units are ones put together from parts post communist era, despite the date marks if I remember correctly.

MDI

[Brian]

Nice color spread!
Yes, ML is Mislav or something like that, bought out the Radom factory and assembled them from parts if I am correct. I keep one in my collection too.
I have 1985,6,7 and 1988. Are those the only 4 years found?

[Mr. B.]

First of all, thanks for the very artistic picture of the various color/shades of the Polish WZ 85 rubber parts. From white through shades of gray to black. Nice group of bayonets! The second picture is an excellent collection of these training bayonets with corresponding marking information.

Second as you can see in the second picture the color of the rubber parts is random based on availability and does not indicate any certain year of production. These parts are easily damaged and just as easily replaced or switched around. Occasionally the bayonets are even found with mixed color tips and collars. Recently a few were even listed on eBay with spare rubber parts.

Third, MDI and Brian are correct. The "ML" series represents a private firm, Zakladow Metalowych, "Lucznik" that took over production of the WZ85 in 2006. They received the technology and left over, unassembled parts from the former Radom arsenal, (Works 11). In the beginning they assembled/completed ML 1988 and ML 1989 versions. They then produced new production and ML 2006 and ML 2007 have been confirmed as well. Mike

[MDIvie]

Just noticed something funny about one of my 1987 dated pieces. Both the 8 in the date and an 8 in the serial number, Nr 03863, are stamped upside down. Polski must have been drunk that day. If anyone else has one of these with the same mis-stamp, let me know.

[Mr. B.]

Here are the two I presently have. Mike

[Mr. B.]

I currently only have two of these Polish trainers. My goal was to keep and display only two representative samples to display most of the main variations, as other than marking and colors, they are pretty much the same and some what expensive. There seems to be only one major change in the metal parts and that is the extra rivet hole in the cross guard, which was not used, disappeared sometime in 1987. In SIG_551_SWAT's 2nd picture above it seems this happened between Nr 3391 and Nr 4371. It is unknown if there is an actual cut off number or if this was a running change as old parts were used up. Another difference is the metal finish, blued or black painted. There are also differences in the head sizes of the small screws at the front of the grips to the cross guards. There are also different colors/shades in the grips from orange to dark brown just like the actual bayonets. Most obvious are the different shades of the rubber collars and tips from white to black. These rubber parts are easily replaced and switched around. Below are my 1986, (light colors, painted), and 1988, (dark colors, blued).

Mike

[Mr. B.]

Here are a few more pictures of the WZ 85 bayonets. Note the molded indents on the grip sides and that the pommels are secured to the grips by machine screws with heads on both sides as they do not go completely through the pommel. Also for general information, none of the parts for these trainers interchange with standard 6H4 Type II bayonets. They may be manufactured on the same machinery and the same basic technology but completely different in final machining and assembly. Ooooops, the bayonet mounting catch assembly may interchange!?

Mike

[Mr. B.]

Another note on the WZ 85 training bayonets. There were several unusual prototypes and limited test/trials, production runs of early versions of this bayonet prior to 1985. The final version, when accepted in 1985, also had a limited run in 1985. These bayonets are like the 1986 marked ones, but completely unmarked. They do not have the oval 11 or any markings on the end of the pommel and a quite rare. On an old Forum there was a collector, I believe in Europe, who collected only these bayonets and had almost all the versions, including the earliest prototypes. Mike

[MDIvie]

Mike says above "There seems to be only one major change in the metal parts and that is the extra rivet hole in the cross guard, which was not used, disappeared sometime in 1987. In SIG_551_SWAT's 2nd picture above it seems this happened between Nr 3391 and Nr 4371."

I can narrow this down even further in that my Nr 03863 has a single pin hole in the cross guard.

MDI

[SIG_551_SWAT]

The prototypes Mr. B. refers to would be these:
These are not mine. A few years ago they were sold on eBay if I remember right.

[Mr. B.]

Yes, great pictures. I missed these when they were on eBay, but they looked like some of those I mentioned in a collection on the old forum. There are also pictures of these and others in several Polish knife and bayonet references.

[porterkids]

I was the second highest bidder on all three of these. They went to a collector in Canada.

[majormadmax]

Picked up a Wz85 (Nr. 03372, 1987) in Germany recently, it's "insulator" (rubber collar) appears to be black whereas the "tip" is gray.

Got it and a subdued National Training Center patch for €65 ($72.50, seller was asking €79.80 or $89 for the training bayonet along), couldn't resist it at that price! It''s used but in pretty good shape!

Cheers! M2

[RPBCPS]

Third, MDI and Brian are correct. The "ML" series represents a private firm, Zakladow Metalowych, "Lucznik" that took over production of the WZ85 in 2006. They received the technology and left over, unassembled parts from the former Radom arsenal, (Works 11). In the beginning they assembled/completed ML 1988 and ML 1989 versions. They then produced new production and ML 2006 and ML 2007 have been confirmed as well. Mike

Mike,
I have been doing some research and found this information on Wikipedia, which I translated into English with Google:
"The beginning of the 1990s was a bad time for plants that changed their name to Zakłady Metalowe Łucznik in 1990. The reduction of orders from the Armed Forces of the Republic of Poland and the ban on exports to the majority of traditional recipients meant that ZM Łucznik found itself on the verge of bankruptcy. The situation improved in the second half of the 1990s in connection with orders for kbk wz. 96 Beryl.
At the end of the 1990s, the financial situation of ZM Łucznik deteriorated again (the last AKMS was produced in 1999 [6]). On November 13, 2000, ZM Łucznik [7] went bankrupt, with a debt of PLN 168 million [8]. A few months earlier, on June 30, 2000, ZM Łucznik and the Industrial Development Agency formed Fabryka Broni "Łucznik" -Radom, which continues the tradition of previous Radom weapons manufacturers. The company belonged to the Polish Defense Holding (formerly Bumar), currently at PGZ"
So perhaps ML does not represent Zakłady Metalowe Łucznik?
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabryka_Broni_„Łucznik”

In old emails from the old AK forum, I found some posts from Jan. 2008 concerning the same subject and one member posted "Michal Lubinski bought all the spare parts, etc from Radom; The bayonets were just assembled recently, vs 20 years ago... Same exact parts."

However, I looked this one up online and found a link on youtube and apparently Michal Lubinski is or was the chairman of the board of 'Works 11': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNo_1niPeZ4

So I am still not sure what the initials ML represent.
Stay safe
Richard

[RPBCPS]

Finally got around to taken photos of the Wz85's in my collection:

Comparison photo between 1986 and 1987 versions showing the extra rivet hole in the cross guard Nr 01463

Nr 04770 still has the original brown wrapping that was on the retractable 'blade' when I purchased it, many years ago.

The ML 2006 versions in the collection are consecutively numbered, 0035 and 0036, and have been in my collection since 2007.

Stay safe
Richard

[Mr. B.]

Lots of good information and pictures. Thanks for sharing. Mike

[ilian]

Hi,

Do you have any of these bayonets dated from 1985?